Hey y'all. sorry I wasn't in class this morning. I was really sick from the chinese food I ate last night. haha. o well, onto my paper.
As of right now, my paper starts out with me driving to the mall. On the way to the mall, I get a flat tire. The only person that stops to help me is John Ramage. And, as soon as he gets out of the car, I begin to thank him. He just starts babbling on and on about the difference between Serious and Rhetorical People. And I look at him, like what the hell are you talking about. And, he tries to explain.
I then invite him to tag along with me to the mall because I think that all this talk is kind of interesting and I really want to know more about what he is talking about. We drive for about 10 minutes when he tells me that we have to stop somewhere because he NEEDS to go. So, I pull over in this taco bell parking lot and we get out and go inside. When we come out we run into a group of bikers. And, then we get into this massive conversation with them and spend more time talking to the bikers then we do in the mall (which is very unusual for me.. I spend as much time as possible shopping.)
When I finally convince John that is time to head to the mall, he says okay as long as we stop at the pet store first. We get to the mall and go to the store and then of course he starts babbling on again, but this time it's about his little "ganster" dog.
Well, that's all I have right now.
Thursday, January 31, 2008
Ramage paper: Take two
Hey all. I tried to post last night, but that error message kept coming up and wouldn't let me post!
Most of my paper is finished but I still have some fixing up to do.
I start out by meeting Ramage and we go to Ramageland. The place is very warped and grotesque looking. I start out by walking down a street and encounter two children, Act and Motion. I then make my way doen a path that leads me to The Serious and Rhetorical people having an argument. After getting out of that situation, I make my way to a river where I meet Heraclitus and Paramenides. After that I get picked up by some Harley guys until my ride breaks down and I'm forced to walk into center city of Ramage land. There I am coerced into giving my bike to a group of gangsters (Scarry, I know). I pass by a colisem and finally make my way home. Of course Ramage pops up every now and again to guide me through his world. That's the basic summary of my paper. Hopefully I can post this time.
Most of my paper is finished but I still have some fixing up to do.
I start out by meeting Ramage and we go to Ramageland. The place is very warped and grotesque looking. I start out by walking down a street and encounter two children, Act and Motion. I then make my way doen a path that leads me to The Serious and Rhetorical people having an argument. After getting out of that situation, I make my way to a river where I meet Heraclitus and Paramenides. After that I get picked up by some Harley guys until my ride breaks down and I'm forced to walk into center city of Ramage land. There I am coerced into giving my bike to a group of gangsters (Scarry, I know). I pass by a colisem and finally make my way home. Of course Ramage pops up every now and again to guide me through his world. That's the basic summary of my paper. Hopefully I can post this time.
thoughts so far for my paper
| I can only begin my adventure to the most sought out and mysterious land full of bikers and rivers only after I said my prayers and passed the gates over to Dreamland. As I fall into this thing that people refer to sleep I question whether the word sleep would exist if the word awake didn’t exist. After much contemplation I came to the conclusion that probably not, but who knows right? All of this thinking made my mind spin and circles and I came to the answer that my mind was now ready for that boggling river ride to Ramageland. One my stream of consciousness and REM (the 4th stage of sleep) was I able to visualize myself. I felt as though I was feeling what the whole out of body experience was like. My body began to fall into a dark hole with a small light at the bottom of it. Once I reached the bottom my body automatically felt sore all over. How convenient, I thought, someone decided to plant a thorn bush at the entrance. Ouch, I thought as a hand reached out to help me out. He told me his name was John Ramage. I thought that it was quite a coincidence because his last name was the land that I was in search of. After getting the uncomfortable thorns that felt like little needles poking my skin out of my back side dear ol’ John asked if I would be his partner going down the river. He explained that his friend was severally ill needed to get to the other end of the river by noon because his grandmother was waiting for him. She had the secret chicken noodle soup that would cure his friend. When I think back to it now I wonder if the banana I had before laying in bed had anything to do with the weird journey I was about to take part in. They say (those crazy psychologists) that your dreams sometimes are reflected by what you eat. Could that possibly be true? So, unknowing of what type of adventure I was about to partake on I thought that it was for a good cause, and I said yes. Down the winding path we ventured deeper into the woods until we came to a clearing. Ideas to continue with… The race with the rabbit and aries The idea of serious people vs. rhetorical people The streams and the bikers with the idea of readymade… |
Wednesday, January 30, 2008
Ouch
So up until about 20 minutes ago I was slamming my head against the book hoping that some magical creative enlightenment of my horrible journey with rhetoric would pop into my head. After minor brain damage, it hit me. (Literally.. HA! Get it? Sorry... remember... brain damage)
Anyway, the best idea that I had was "The Wizard of Rhetoric". Being a play off of the Wizard of OZ, the main character is Dorothy, a serious person who doesn't know about rhetoric, is thrown into the world of rhetoric and "finds her way by going where she has to go." The Rhetoric Witch of the North, Ramage, is her guide, but he often rambles on and sometimes gets her lost. Along the way she meets serious characters similar to the tin man, scarecrow, and the cowardly lion (all whom I have yet to come up with insanely witty names for) who are trying to find a balance between their serious selves and rhetoric. Their largest obstacle, the Serious Witch of the West, hates rhetoricians. But of course there is the Wizard of Rhetoric who at first tries to scare them away by tricking them into thinking he is great and powerful and that he doesn't want them to have a balance between rhetoric and serious, but then turns out to be a little old man who has read a crappy book called "Rhetoric: A User's Guide" and is just really disgruntled and confused because the book was terrible and made no sense to him.
That's pretty much all that my bruised brain could come up with so far. Good luck to everyone!
Anyway, the best idea that I had was "The Wizard of Rhetoric". Being a play off of the Wizard of OZ, the main character is Dorothy, a serious person who doesn't know about rhetoric, is thrown into the world of rhetoric and "finds her way by going where she has to go." The Rhetoric Witch of the North, Ramage, is her guide, but he often rambles on and sometimes gets her lost. Along the way she meets serious characters similar to the tin man, scarecrow, and the cowardly lion (all whom I have yet to come up with insanely witty names for) who are trying to find a balance between their serious selves and rhetoric. Their largest obstacle, the Serious Witch of the West, hates rhetoricians. But of course there is the Wizard of Rhetoric who at first tries to scare them away by tricking them into thinking he is great and powerful and that he doesn't want them to have a balance between rhetoric and serious, but then turns out to be a little old man who has read a crappy book called "Rhetoric: A User's Guide" and is just really disgruntled and confused because the book was terrible and made no sense to him.
That's pretty much all that my bruised brain could come up with so far. Good luck to everyone!
how many circles of hell do i have to go through again?
hi all.
as i said in class, i am thinking of loosely modeling my paper off of dante aligheri's the inferno. i'm not sure if i will go through all 9 circles, seeing as a lot of punishment is dealt out for many different kinds of sinners in those circles (even though the final one is reserved for the unholy ramage himself). i would be taking dante's place in the narrative, but i'm not sure who i want to have as my guide yet. i want ramage in the 9th circle, if i do this... he definitely belongs in the deepest layer of hell for having written this nonsense. it kind of feels like a power trip sometimes -- he knows what he's talking about, but he won't tell the rest of us. he likes for us to be confused so we have to keep reading to find out what the hell he's talking about. in which case, he should be punished for being arrogant. ugh.
i also had some other ideas that are not nearly as complicated or belief-inducing. i mentioned a story i had written in highschool that involved a market where the shops were all metaphors for writing and life. i may do something like that, where each lesson is a shop and each thing i buy is a piece of the puzzle that ramage is trying (albeit poorly) to explain.
as i said in class, i am thinking of loosely modeling my paper off of dante aligheri's the inferno. i'm not sure if i will go through all 9 circles, seeing as a lot of punishment is dealt out for many different kinds of sinners in those circles (even though the final one is reserved for the unholy ramage himself). i would be taking dante's place in the narrative, but i'm not sure who i want to have as my guide yet. i want ramage in the 9th circle, if i do this... he definitely belongs in the deepest layer of hell for having written this nonsense. it kind of feels like a power trip sometimes -- he knows what he's talking about, but he won't tell the rest of us. he likes for us to be confused so we have to keep reading to find out what the hell he's talking about. in which case, he should be punished for being arrogant. ugh.
i also had some other ideas that are not nearly as complicated or belief-inducing. i mentioned a story i had written in highschool that involved a market where the shops were all metaphors for writing and life. i may do something like that, where each lesson is a shop and each thing i buy is a piece of the puzzle that ramage is trying (albeit poorly) to explain.
dont ask...
Scrounging for ideas and then... POP!
Okay. So I knew from the get go that I wanted to represent certain aspects of rhetoric that stuck with me or jumped out and slapped me around a little through people and their unique personalities. Then I questioned myself... How can I accomplish this without being ultra-corny and cliche. Well, the corny part might still remain but at least I might be able to pull 5 pages out of it. Nevertheless I'm going to do it as a speed dating event. Yeah speed dating. And every new female that I converse with will be representative of something found in rhetoric through Ramage. Its in the working now. I'll have something tasty whipped up for class (possibly made in a pressure cooker). I don't think I can compete with the "shit" story, but I'm going to try and keep it fresh. Until next time America.
Okay. So I knew from the get go that I wanted to represent certain aspects of rhetoric that stuck with me or jumped out and slapped me around a little through people and their unique personalities. Then I questioned myself... How can I accomplish this without being ultra-corny and cliche. Well, the corny part might still remain but at least I might be able to pull 5 pages out of it. Nevertheless I'm going to do it as a speed dating event. Yeah speed dating. And every new female that I converse with will be representative of something found in rhetoric through Ramage. Its in the working now. I'll have something tasty whipped up for class (possibly made in a pressure cooker). I don't think I can compete with the "shit" story, but I'm going to try and keep it fresh. Until next time America.
Rafting on Rhetoric River
Hey guys,
I am mostly done with my paper but I do need to tune it up a bit. I plan on trying to be more descriptive in my identity construction because like was suggested, its not so much fun to just tell the identity rather than try to effectively describe what creates a certain identity. Other than that, my work is cut out for me.
I am mostly done with my paper but I do need to tune it up a bit. I plan on trying to be more descriptive in my identity construction because like was suggested, its not so much fun to just tell the identity rather than try to effectively describe what creates a certain identity. Other than that, my work is cut out for me.
paper ideas
I've come up with some semblance of an outline, or maybe not quite an outline, but definitely some concrete ideas I am going to develop. I've started my journey off with me waking up on a bus, and forgetting how she got there. Eventually I wake up from my sleep-stupor, and realize I do know where I am going- I have a destination. While I know noone on the bus, a woman befriends me (her name is "Ramona"... aka Ramage... in a woman's body, weird!) and we get to talking. I ask her why she is traveling on this particular bus trip, and she surprises me to say that we are not on the destination I thought we were.
This journey signifies to me my complete lack of knowledge in rhetoric in only a mere two weeks ago, to where I am now, which is not really all that much. My preconceived notions have been slightly disproved, as I also learn on my journey, and I don't know where my final destination is in regards to learning in this class, as well as me in the story.
The story reflects a learning on my part, and along the way I think the focus will be the "describe what it isn't to get what it is" that is talked about in the book. Also, some persuasion tactics that are discussed in Chapter 3 will come into play. I have so many ideas I want to discuss, but I know that by focusing on just two or three, my story will be coherant, and not just rushed & incomplete.
This journey signifies to me my complete lack of knowledge in rhetoric in only a mere two weeks ago, to where I am now, which is not really all that much. My preconceived notions have been slightly disproved, as I also learn on my journey, and I don't know where my final destination is in regards to learning in this class, as well as me in the story.
The story reflects a learning on my part, and along the way I think the focus will be the "describe what it isn't to get what it is" that is talked about in the book. Also, some persuasion tactics that are discussed in Chapter 3 will come into play. I have so many ideas I want to discuss, but I know that by focusing on just two or three, my story will be coherant, and not just rushed & incomplete.
Ramage in a Bottle?
Alright well my creative juices have been flowing, however the best thing I have come up with has to be my genie idea.
I was thinking of having myself as the main character of the narrative. Grumbling after another disheartening Advanced Comp lesson, I go into an antique store, presumably one in Kutztown, finding an ancient lamp of some sort. Somehow, I am sucked into the crazy world of the Rhetoric Genie aka Ramage.
Three wishes. Yea, we've all heard this before. But genie's are not supposed to be the fun loving Robin Williams like character we've all been exposed to. GENIES ARE EVIL. Hmm, Ramage...as a genie. Fits eh?
So after some rules are set down (ex: I cannot wish to suddenly know everything there is to know about Rhetoric) I wish to understand three concepts about rhetoric. Of course, because my own personal journey has been hell and all genies are evil, my wishes aren't exactly granted as expected.
Don't worry though, I am sure my character will confidently beat any games Ramage the Rhetoric genie will put me through.
And that's all folks. I got nothing else. =)
I was thinking of having myself as the main character of the narrative. Grumbling after another disheartening Advanced Comp lesson, I go into an antique store, presumably one in Kutztown, finding an ancient lamp of some sort. Somehow, I am sucked into the crazy world of the Rhetoric Genie aka Ramage.
Three wishes. Yea, we've all heard this before. But genie's are not supposed to be the fun loving Robin Williams like character we've all been exposed to. GENIES ARE EVIL. Hmm, Ramage...as a genie. Fits eh?
So after some rules are set down (ex: I cannot wish to suddenly know everything there is to know about Rhetoric) I wish to understand three concepts about rhetoric. Of course, because my own personal journey has been hell and all genies are evil, my wishes aren't exactly granted as expected.
Don't worry though, I am sure my character will confidently beat any games Ramage the Rhetoric genie will put me through.
And that's all folks. I got nothing else. =)
Tuesday, January 29, 2008
Feisty Feces
Although when I suggested that I would write about the voyage of feces I was half kidding, I've decided that this is something I'd like to try. However, I must admit that it has been challenging so far.
What I have been doing is breaking down both subjects: the book and feces (although not literally with the latter haha)...awkward...anyway...
i'd like to parallel this book with feces since I do infact consider this book shit. I am going to compare the components of feces to the components of this book. Following that, the feces are going to take a trip through various aspects of the book. I will compare being sick to the sickness I felt when reading the book, and certain particular pains to certain parts. ex. Eating a bad food to reading the book, from the first bite I knew it would not turn out well. And so on and so forth.
I wish I could give more of an explanation but at this time I am still sorting through what I am doing. I have a lot of ideas, now i just need to ground them.
I appreciate the support I got on this paper...you all want to see me fail! : )
What I have been doing is breaking down both subjects: the book and feces (although not literally with the latter haha)...awkward...anyway...
i'd like to parallel this book with feces since I do infact consider this book shit. I am going to compare the components of feces to the components of this book. Following that, the feces are going to take a trip through various aspects of the book. I will compare being sick to the sickness I felt when reading the book, and certain particular pains to certain parts. ex. Eating a bad food to reading the book, from the first bite I knew it would not turn out well. And so on and so forth.
I wish I could give more of an explanation but at this time I am still sorting through what I am doing. I have a lot of ideas, now i just need to ground them.
I appreciate the support I got on this paper...you all want to see me fail! : )
I finally did it!
I feel like such a dork. I really couldn't figure out how to post on the blog but I just wasn't signed in correctly...duh.
Anyway, in reference to this "journey" assignment, I've decided that the best way to approach it is to personify the topics I found to be most interesting (and UN interesting as it were) in Ramage's writing. For example, I plan on having the narrator be someone viewed as "serious" who just can't seem to understand the people around her and their "un-serious" behavior. These people will personify rhetoric in all its glory, concentrating mainly on identity, persuasion and persistence. While there are many people out there who could be considered "serious", I would have to say that more often than not people are arguing about something. Thus, I want to create the view that this main character (whatever his/her name becomes) feels like an outsider. This character chooses not to partake in any kind of confrontational situation and furthermore does not quite understand rhetoric at all. This leads to social awkwardness and leaves him/her unable to contribute anything of importance in day to day conversation. I suppose my story will become rhetoric in some shape or form because I will ultimately be trying to convince the reader that living a life without rhetoric is like living the boring, colorless life of my main character. However, this does not in any way, shape or form suggest that Ramage is a necessity for fruitful existence.
:) amanda
Anyway, in reference to this "journey" assignment, I've decided that the best way to approach it is to personify the topics I found to be most interesting (and UN interesting as it were) in Ramage's writing. For example, I plan on having the narrator be someone viewed as "serious" who just can't seem to understand the people around her and their "un-serious" behavior. These people will personify rhetoric in all its glory, concentrating mainly on identity, persuasion and persistence. While there are many people out there who could be considered "serious", I would have to say that more often than not people are arguing about something. Thus, I want to create the view that this main character (whatever his/her name becomes) feels like an outsider. This character chooses not to partake in any kind of confrontational situation and furthermore does not quite understand rhetoric at all. This leads to social awkwardness and leaves him/her unable to contribute anything of importance in day to day conversation. I suppose my story will become rhetoric in some shape or form because I will ultimately be trying to convince the reader that living a life without rhetoric is like living the boring, colorless life of my main character. However, this does not in any way, shape or form suggest that Ramage is a necessity for fruitful existence.
:) amanda
Saturday, January 26, 2008
Rambling Ramage
Hi everyone!
Now that I finally got on (stupid technology), I am not sure where I want to go from here. Starting this class, I had only heard rhetoric a couple times, but now that I am in the class, I have been hearing it everywhere. It seems to be taking over my life, whether I want it to or not. I guess books will do that sometimes.
Reading Ramage’s book on rhetoric has been more of a struggle then I have had with a book in a long time. Trying to understand his meaning and examples have given me a headache on more than one occasion. I wish it would go away (the book and the headache).
Maybe too if Ramage wouldn’t ramble so much we could all get a little more of his book. He starts to make sense with an example, but then when he continues to go on, and on, and on, and on (you get the idea), it begins to get a little repetitive and a little more confusing. The last chapter we read on rhetoric and persuasion started making sense, but then when he started talking about a continuum and where literature and everything belongs, it began to get a little overwhelming. I think I have to reread that part and see if anything comes out of that chapter. Right now, it all seems a blur.
Nevertheless, headaches and rambling aside, I have been getting a little out of the book. The chapter on Identity really made me think about where I belong in this world, and what my identity is. Being in college it is much different than when I was in high school, and knowing that I will soon graduate and find a career is a little scary to say the least. I don’t want to be caught up in typical stereotypes yet I don’t know what I truly want to do yet, and that is scary in itself. Maybe reading Ramage a little more won’t hurt me, and I guess I can take some Advil and sit down and try to understand. If that doesn’t work, I have two fireplaces going that would love a little help.
So until class, enjoy the weekend everyone, and let’s try not to think about Ramage and rhetoric too much.
Now that I finally got on (stupid technology), I am not sure where I want to go from here. Starting this class, I had only heard rhetoric a couple times, but now that I am in the class, I have been hearing it everywhere. It seems to be taking over my life, whether I want it to or not. I guess books will do that sometimes.
Reading Ramage’s book on rhetoric has been more of a struggle then I have had with a book in a long time. Trying to understand his meaning and examples have given me a headache on more than one occasion. I wish it would go away (the book and the headache).
Maybe too if Ramage wouldn’t ramble so much we could all get a little more of his book. He starts to make sense with an example, but then when he continues to go on, and on, and on, and on (you get the idea), it begins to get a little repetitive and a little more confusing. The last chapter we read on rhetoric and persuasion started making sense, but then when he started talking about a continuum and where literature and everything belongs, it began to get a little overwhelming. I think I have to reread that part and see if anything comes out of that chapter. Right now, it all seems a blur.
Nevertheless, headaches and rambling aside, I have been getting a little out of the book. The chapter on Identity really made me think about where I belong in this world, and what my identity is. Being in college it is much different than when I was in high school, and knowing that I will soon graduate and find a career is a little scary to say the least. I don’t want to be caught up in typical stereotypes yet I don’t know what I truly want to do yet, and that is scary in itself. Maybe reading Ramage a little more won’t hurt me, and I guess I can take some Advil and sit down and try to understand. If that doesn’t work, I have two fireplaces going that would love a little help.
So until class, enjoy the weekend everyone, and let’s try not to think about Ramage and rhetoric too much.
Thursday, January 24, 2008
Ramage
In the time I've spent reading this book, I've found points that Ramage has made that I've both liked (or rather not completely disagreed with) and disliked. The first two chapters were kind of annoying, mostly because it seemed to me that he was speaking to the reader with a tone in which did not offer any consideration of a differing point of view (for example, his examples of "rhetoricians" and "serious people). Like I said in class, I felt like I was listening to Rush Limbaugh. Which is funny, because is chapter three he compares propoganda to "talk radio call-in shows" (page 75). Anyways, most of my disagreement came within chapter two, while he was speaking about identity, during which I spent a duration of the chapter arguing with the book... and my boyfriend spent much of that time looking at me strangely. I found chapter three a bit easier to digest, however, and didn't really find as much to disagree with (unfortunately).
Overall, I would say the book is interesting a presents some claims that are new to me; some of the things that Ramage discusses, though, just seem a little silly. I wanted to reach into the book and slap him when he felt the need to disclose to the reader what qualifies at literary (page 76). I also found it a little ridiculous that he felt it necessary to discuss why beer advertisements advertise the way that they do (then again I suppose it was a needed example).
And now I have to go to class. :)
Overall, I would say the book is interesting a presents some claims that are new to me; some of the things that Ramage discusses, though, just seem a little silly. I wanted to reach into the book and slap him when he felt the need to disclose to the reader what qualifies at literary (page 76). I also found it a little ridiculous that he felt it necessary to discuss why beer advertisements advertise the way that they do (then again I suppose it was a needed example).
And now I have to go to class. :)
My thoughts on Ramage
So far, I've really liked Ramage. Rhetoric is not like any other text book (if you can call it a text book) that I've ever read. I like how he has a conversation with you, rather than just stating the facts. Using as many examples as he does really helps me understand what he is talking about, rather than just giving a vague definition and not really explaining it any further. However, he does babble on and on sometimes and you have to wonder what his point is, and I get frustrated sometimes when reading some sections.
One passage from out last assignment really called out to me. "By forcing ourselves to accommodate divergent views, even if doing so forces us to challenge the beliefs and assumptions of our audience, we are forced to engage our creative powers and enrich our audience" (79). I think this really backed up our last class discussion. The first day of class when everyone defined what they thought rhetoric was, nearly everyone said that it was the power of persuasion or a form of communication. We have the power to change a person's opinions, beliefs and even values with mere words.
One passage from out last assignment really called out to me. "By forcing ourselves to accommodate divergent views, even if doing so forces us to challenge the beliefs and assumptions of our audience, we are forced to engage our creative powers and enrich our audience" (79). I think this really backed up our last class discussion. The first day of class when everyone defined what they thought rhetoric was, nearly everyone said that it was the power of persuasion or a form of communication. We have the power to change a person's opinions, beliefs and even values with mere words.
Ramage
So... Ramage. Actually, despite the first chapter being a complete mess to understand, I have found the two remaining chapters on the most part, coherant and easy to read. I'm an 'examples' kind of reader- so the more Ramage shows me through examples, the more I understand. As Ramage begins to explain what I assume will be more of the different types of rhetoric, I find myself stuck in the part about Persuasion.
At the college I recently transferred from, one of my last classes was called 'Persuasion,' yet we absolutely never talked about rhetoric. Perhaps if we had, I thought last night, I wouldn't feel so completely like a fish out of water in this class, not knowing where we're going. And all of a sudden, as I thought about my mini 'control' issues, I realized this is exactly what rhetoric is. CONTROL. These different outlets, like persuasion and propeganda and even coercion or literature, all have to do with the control of rhetoric.
Obviously, some of these things are not as great as others. This connection to words and thoughts and how people think is so relatable to our everyday life, and what we see around ourselves. It forces us to think that maybe how we feel & see & what we believe is more than likely a product of rhetoric. And that? Is really cool to me.
At the college I recently transferred from, one of my last classes was called 'Persuasion,' yet we absolutely never talked about rhetoric. Perhaps if we had, I thought last night, I wouldn't feel so completely like a fish out of water in this class, not knowing where we're going. And all of a sudden, as I thought about my mini 'control' issues, I realized this is exactly what rhetoric is. CONTROL. These different outlets, like persuasion and propeganda and even coercion or literature, all have to do with the control of rhetoric.
Obviously, some of these things are not as great as others. This connection to words and thoughts and how people think is so relatable to our everyday life, and what we see around ourselves. It forces us to think that maybe how we feel & see & what we believe is more than likely a product of rhetoric. And that? Is really cool to me.
What I think about Ramage
In the beginning, I didn't mind Ramage. I actually liked the book and the way he confused me and made me re-read sections to make me understand what he was talking about. The second chapter, I could relate more with because I felt as though he was talking to me directly and not like a normal textbook would. But, now after reading the 3rd chapter, I'm really starting to dislike Ramage. It seems to me that he could have written this chapter with a lot less rambling. He tends to get on a subject and then just ramble on for like 3 pages about nothing. But I do have to say that I like the way that he writes. I feel that it is more conversational than any other text book that I have read. So, it makes it easier to read. And, if it wasn't in that format, I would have a really hard time reading this book.
My title's not as creative as everyone elses.
The text is not simple to grasp, partly because Ramage speaks in a verbose manner, but primarily because the topic being covered is one which is not concrete. Rhetoric in itself is marked by its verbosity…Maybe this is why Ramage uses seemingly pretentious language to illustrate the meaning of Rhetoric. Ramage is in-fact using rhetoric to describe rhetoric; his writing style parallels what he is explaining.
I noticed that rhetoric surrounds us. I found it interesting in chapter three when Ramage noted that in school teachers use rhetoric to teach. Even if what a teacher is presenting is in fact “truth”, they use rhetoric as a means for presenting the material needed to be taught. Persuasion is needed to get someone to follow a doctrine; otherwise, one would need to use force.
The third chapter also presented the prominence of rhetoric in politics. With primary elections taking place in our country currently it’s easy to find connections. Politicians use rhetoric to communicate a message. Slander is used to derail opponents. Speeches are constructed in fashions to favor the speaker’s goals, a tactic George Bush used in his 2003 State of The Union Address.
We use it when talking to our friends, parents, teachers, or anyone else who we want a response from. We use it to describe how much we abhor a certain book. Rhetoric's everywhere, whether we realize or not.
I noticed that rhetoric surrounds us. I found it interesting in chapter three when Ramage noted that in school teachers use rhetoric to teach. Even if what a teacher is presenting is in fact “truth”, they use rhetoric as a means for presenting the material needed to be taught. Persuasion is needed to get someone to follow a doctrine; otherwise, one would need to use force.
The third chapter also presented the prominence of rhetoric in politics. With primary elections taking place in our country currently it’s easy to find connections. Politicians use rhetoric to communicate a message. Slander is used to derail opponents. Speeches are constructed in fashions to favor the speaker’s goals, a tactic George Bush used in his 2003 State of The Union Address.
We use it when talking to our friends, parents, teachers, or anyone else who we want a response from. We use it to describe how much we abhor a certain book. Rhetoric's everywhere, whether we realize or not.
Ramage is a bit difficult to deal with at first because you enter the text thinking that things will be spelled out and in definite terms. The text is actually useful once you realize that we are students learning on a higher level. This is not high school and the text is not a high school text. How very appropriate.
What A Waste
Let me just start by flat out saying I hate this book. I feel that Ramage had too much time on his hands and just felt the need to ramble about completely useless and unnecessary things. Like honestly, I got nothing out of the first chapter. I was extremely disappointed when I opened up my book and within the first few lines it stated that there was going to be no definition of rhetoric given. I HATE THAT! When I am reading something, especially when the book is called Rhetoric, I would expect it to give a clear definition of what it is talking about.
I found chapter two a slight bit more interesting. I felt like there where things in it that a person could actually relate to. The one part that I really enjoyed reading about was the part where he broke down Shakespeare's sonnet. It just really grabbed my attention and I enjoyed that, but sadly my enjoyment ended about three pages later when the rambling began to continue once again. Like honestly, was the part about the Harley riders at all necessary? Or what about P-dog? I feel like this stuff is just written to take up space.
Finally though, I have made it through chapter 3. It was a struggle because I really didn't find anything interesting at all. I didn't care what the sidebars had to say, I found it all very boring. The only part that slightly sparked my interest was the area in which Ramage talked about law vs. propaganda and advertising.
Overall I hate this book and I can't wait until we are done reading it! It's nothing but a complete waste of paper.
I found chapter two a slight bit more interesting. I felt like there where things in it that a person could actually relate to. The one part that I really enjoyed reading about was the part where he broke down Shakespeare's sonnet. It just really grabbed my attention and I enjoyed that, but sadly my enjoyment ended about three pages later when the rambling began to continue once again. Like honestly, was the part about the Harley riders at all necessary? Or what about P-dog? I feel like this stuff is just written to take up space.
Finally though, I have made it through chapter 3. It was a struggle because I really didn't find anything interesting at all. I didn't care what the sidebars had to say, I found it all very boring. The only part that slightly sparked my interest was the area in which Ramage talked about law vs. propaganda and advertising.
Overall I hate this book and I can't wait until we are done reading it! It's nothing but a complete waste of paper.
Ramage Rage
Okay, I enjoy reading and learning. That's why I am here, attending Kutztown University. However, reading this "textbook" (I use the term loosely here) has tempted me on more than one occasion to toss it out of my fifth story dorm window. If I actually manage to somehow survive this book during this semester, without ripping it to shreds with my teeth, I will consider that a MAJOR accomplishment!
I will agree that this so called "guide" has a few interesting points, facts and examples that intrigue me, such as the river philosophy and the thoughts on identity. The problem is, I have trouble understanding what Ramage is trying to explain because of the complicated and abstract way he describes things, especially Rhetoric itself. I understand the method of trying to explaining what it isn't so we can try and figure out what it is on our own but for a beginner's guide I think that's pushing the limit. Call me lazy or slow, but when I am first learning about a new subject I need it broken down into smaller pieces in words that are easy to understand.
From what I have managed to grasp onto is that persuasion is possibly the core of rhetoric and that it involves a great deal on word choices, tone and style. If I am wrong, then maybe someone else can help me figure it out at a later date.
So essentially I could say I am pretty confused and mentally vulnerable to what Ramage is trying to say but one of my professors here at Kutztown University said that being confused is the best state to be in.
I will agree that this so called "guide" has a few interesting points, facts and examples that intrigue me, such as the river philosophy and the thoughts on identity. The problem is, I have trouble understanding what Ramage is trying to explain because of the complicated and abstract way he describes things, especially Rhetoric itself. I understand the method of trying to explaining what it isn't so we can try and figure out what it is on our own but for a beginner's guide I think that's pushing the limit. Call me lazy or slow, but when I am first learning about a new subject I need it broken down into smaller pieces in words that are easy to understand.
From what I have managed to grasp onto is that persuasion is possibly the core of rhetoric and that it involves a great deal on word choices, tone and style. If I am wrong, then maybe someone else can help me figure it out at a later date.
So essentially I could say I am pretty confused and mentally vulnerable to what Ramage is trying to say but one of my professors here at Kutztown University said that being confused is the best state to be in.
Rhetorically Speaking...
Although I think Ramage loves seeing his words printed on paper and overindulges in his ramblings, making them quite lengthy(I can almost see him sitting at a computer desk twirling his mustache while smirking at his “self felt” brilliance of his words), I do think he has some good ideas. The trick is filtering out the important things from the rest of his useless digressions. Though I should mention, I haven’t really mastered this yet.
I liked a lot of the things he had to say about identity. Probably the most interesting thing to me was the whole “Rugged Individual” thing, and how a majority of people will relate to that stereotype regardless of what their “group” is. And when I thought about it, so many of our culture’s icons thrive around that concept. Whether it’s advertisements or celebrities, the outsider notion always seems to have an appeal to a large part of the audience. I also liked the whole describing and defining something by telling what it’s not (the crab claw story at the beginning of chapter 2).
That said, I’m going to reiterate my frustration at his blatant overuse of words and letters. He really should have cooled it down a bit when writing. There are sometimes where he tries so hard to avoid using a cliché that the passage he comes up with is ridiculous. For example, “Light as gossamer, blown hither and yon by every new wind of change and fashion, never looking beyond whatever advantage is to be gained from each exchange, they hopscotch their way through life.” (It’s on page 8). I’ll give him credit for trying to be creative, but reading this definitely made me like him less. He doesn’t need to expand so much, and that sentence didn’t make me understand the point any better.
If he wrote a little less, we’d all probably follow his logic a little better; he has some great points. I love the fact that he doesn’t tell us what rhetoric is, because it’s sort of an abstract concept that can’t really be accurately defined. And I guess that's his whole purpose in writing so ambiguously--rhetoric isn't clear, and neither is he. Well that was a stretch, but I thought I'd try to justify his writing style.
Ramalama....Ramage
The sound of my space heater violently kicking on jars me from my reading and lifts my head up like a deranged lunch lady sadistically scooping up mashed potatoes to be placed on the plate of the next adolescent victim in line for something called a lunch. "Oh yeah!" Time to do a blog entry.
At first I'd think my random introduction would be a bit much, but after a second evaluation I begin to understand that not only does it not matter because I have Promethazine flowing through my veins to aid my bronchitis, but this is the manner in which this entire book seems to be written. It no secret Ramage enjoys using random "exciting" examples to further our understanding of Rhetoric all the while not fully explaining its book definition from the get go. This was the first ditch to evade when getting used to his approach of writing and informing.
After coming to terms with the fact that the text wasn't going to throw questions with answers at me, I began to settle in and take it for what its worth. There is a lot of meat here, minus the beef and pork aspect of things. Ramage obviously knows his stuff, now I just need to take his "stuff" and organize in such a way that I can access it and use it correctly when I need to. This has probably been the hardest part of the reading. Maybe its just that I'm looking into everyone of his ridiculous examples too much in hope of gaining something that isn't noticeable from the surface. Regardless, there is still a fair amount of meat, not poultry either, or fish, that I acquired a liking and respect for. Just to name a few...
1. " I find my way by going where I have to go." He steals this line from Kenneth Burke. For some reason I find this fascinating. Maybe its just the fact that I can relate to it and because we used the "driving but not remembering" example in class and this tends to happen a lot to me. Or its the fact that even though some of us try to "live outside the box," par say, our findings and discoveries are still restricted to only things that we already know. Who knows? He then begins to talk about Act and Motion and more examples arise as well as my confusion level.
(somewhere in here lies slow foods and a pile of other jargon)
2. How to Be a Harley Guy. I enjoyed this thoroughly. Is a Harley necessary? no. Is it good transportation all year around? no. Is Ramage possibly running out of examples? never. Even though the Harley comes with this preset image that one is supposed to carry and proudly display, the person under the helmet is usually just your average joe. Knowing how much Harleys cost, its no wonder. Rhetoric and Idenity and Harleys? Who would of knew.
3. The best of both worlds. Rhetoric is not possible in a perfect world or the polar opposite. It finds itself able to work nestled in between the two. Rhetoric requires something to expose or examine and in a perfect world there is no loose ends to rip at and in a doomed world it doesn't matter.
Looking back on what we read thus far. Sometimes it was painful, sometimes it was interesting, and sometimes I just wanted to burn it, yet I don't think anyone can honestly say that they didn't gain anything from it. Even if you are still lost in the ideal of Rhetoric, which I still am, theres plenty of random examples to through your train of thought off and get you thinking about something totally out of context.
Oh and Benny, give him your money.
At first I'd think my random introduction would be a bit much, but after a second evaluation I begin to understand that not only does it not matter because I have Promethazine flowing through my veins to aid my bronchitis, but this is the manner in which this entire book seems to be written. It no secret Ramage enjoys using random "exciting" examples to further our understanding of Rhetoric all the while not fully explaining its book definition from the get go. This was the first ditch to evade when getting used to his approach of writing and informing.
After coming to terms with the fact that the text wasn't going to throw questions with answers at me, I began to settle in and take it for what its worth. There is a lot of meat here, minus the beef and pork aspect of things. Ramage obviously knows his stuff, now I just need to take his "stuff" and organize in such a way that I can access it and use it correctly when I need to. This has probably been the hardest part of the reading. Maybe its just that I'm looking into everyone of his ridiculous examples too much in hope of gaining something that isn't noticeable from the surface. Regardless, there is still a fair amount of meat, not poultry either, or fish, that I acquired a liking and respect for. Just to name a few...
1. " I find my way by going where I have to go." He steals this line from Kenneth Burke. For some reason I find this fascinating. Maybe its just the fact that I can relate to it and because we used the "driving but not remembering" example in class and this tends to happen a lot to me. Or its the fact that even though some of us try to "live outside the box," par say, our findings and discoveries are still restricted to only things that we already know. Who knows? He then begins to talk about Act and Motion and more examples arise as well as my confusion level.
(somewhere in here lies slow foods and a pile of other jargon)
2. How to Be a Harley Guy. I enjoyed this thoroughly. Is a Harley necessary? no. Is it good transportation all year around? no. Is Ramage possibly running out of examples? never. Even though the Harley comes with this preset image that one is supposed to carry and proudly display, the person under the helmet is usually just your average joe. Knowing how much Harleys cost, its no wonder. Rhetoric and Idenity and Harleys? Who would of knew.
3. The best of both worlds. Rhetoric is not possible in a perfect world or the polar opposite. It finds itself able to work nestled in between the two. Rhetoric requires something to expose or examine and in a perfect world there is no loose ends to rip at and in a doomed world it doesn't matter.
Looking back on what we read thus far. Sometimes it was painful, sometimes it was interesting, and sometimes I just wanted to burn it, yet I don't think anyone can honestly say that they didn't gain anything from it. Even if you are still lost in the ideal of Rhetoric, which I still am, theres plenty of random examples to through your train of thought off and get you thinking about something totally out of context.
Oh and Benny, give him your money.
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
Struggling With the Tools of Persuasion and Interpretation
Anything spoken or written is rhetoric? What are the implications of this? To say that persuasion and interpretation are involved in anything I say or write is, of course, quite logical. Complete objectivity? I have long seen this notion as an ideal more than a practice. However, when one stops to consider that one is using rhetoric rather than just, say, thinking out loud or writing a pretty poem… Well, I questioned what my identity was. What is my rhetoric? What am I authoring here? These questions were quickly followed by, “Perhaps I should be more careful in what I say. Maybe I should watch what I write.”
However, I reminded myself that I was reading a textbook for class. There was no need to take self inventory. Read the assignment. Take notes. Answer the questions. It was a simple process, really.
Yes, but then the chapter turned to concepts of relativism and pluralism; coercion; propaganda. My thoughts jumped back to two specific statements Ramage made earlier in the chapter. First, that “the process of identity formation is largely about the struggle to control [one’s] meaning, to construct an identity consistent with [one’s] values, and to defend that identity against the misinterpretations and misappropriations of others” (69). Second, “[one’s] capacity to resists, oppose, and entertain divergent beliefs—to understand [one’s] ways of talking about the world ‘in terms of’ alternative ways of talking about the world—is a fundamental expression of [one’s] humanity” (70). Both these terms are full of action!
What am I authoring if I don’t construct or defend my identity? What does it say about my humanity if I don’t consider alternative ways of talking? What if I don’t take an active role and I just take the path of least resistance? What would I be authoring then?
It would still be rhetoric, I suppose. Just with the tools poorly wielded.
Ramage makes me wanna Rampage!!!! (sometimes)
Although I do not find Ramage to be a clear writer, I will give credit where it is due. He does present critical thinking ideas that do for me two things: 1. Get me frustrated at times; 2. On a more serious note, Ramage displays that rhetoric is as common as the air we breath. As he states in chapter one page 2: "Those quacks and mountebanks on late-night TV who flog fat burning elastic belts practice rhetoric," "those shameless mopes who phone during diner and plead with us to buy a time-share in Orlando practice rhetoric." I do like how he found two Americanized ideals of corporate America and showed how this is rhetoric. Overall, despite what Ramage's writing style may be, it is more important as a reader to find key ideas and think about them. Rather than have Ramage tell us what it is, we should find our own theory because who's to say that we college students are not smart enough to come up with our own theory.
ramage and the damage he has caused to my love for reading
Rhetoric: A User's Guide. If rhetoric was a code word for "self-destruction" or "Bored to tears" I would take this book for all it's worth and applaud Rammage for successfuling achieving both of those things: making me want to self destruct and boring me to tears. However, despite the title of this book, I find that it has very little to do with rhetoric. In fact, in the first 68 pages, Rammage does not successfuly begin to explain what rhetoric is other than with a series of abstract, long-winded, examples that hardly relate to reading, writing, speaking, or even the basic grunts and wooden clubs of caveman communication.
But despite my feelings, this blog is not meant to be used as an avenue for reviewing our (mandatory) text. It is after all a venue for us to relate our experiences with the text and describing what we have learned so far:
1. Socrates was a know-it-all
2. Old dead guys like to talk about rivers
3. metaphors about fast food and slow food should not take up two pages of any book
4. Ramage's pet dog Penny is a gangsta known as "P" or "P-Dog"
5. Sylvia Plath hated her dad
But I suppose I am being a tad dramatic. I will not sit here and pretend that I did not learn anything worth remembering. A few things that caught my eye:
1. There would be know need for rhetoric in a perfect world
2. Sometimes even great things can be changed (constitution)
3. To an extent, we create who we are by what we say
4. Culture has created stereotypes
5. Sylvia Plath hated her dad (hey, it's interesting)
I must admit that for me, finding the good in all of the bad was much like finding a democrat in alabama: not easy. However, with a little effort I found it possible. Now I can only hope that in the coming chapters, my challenge will not be so daunting.
But despite my feelings, this blog is not meant to be used as an avenue for reviewing our (mandatory) text. It is after all a venue for us to relate our experiences with the text and describing what we have learned so far:
1. Socrates was a know-it-all
2. Old dead guys like to talk about rivers
3. metaphors about fast food and slow food should not take up two pages of any book
4. Ramage's pet dog Penny is a gangsta known as "P" or "P-Dog"
5. Sylvia Plath hated her dad
But I suppose I am being a tad dramatic. I will not sit here and pretend that I did not learn anything worth remembering. A few things that caught my eye:
1. There would be know need for rhetoric in a perfect world
2. Sometimes even great things can be changed (constitution)
3. To an extent, we create who we are by what we say
4. Culture has created stereotypes
5. Sylvia Plath hated her dad (hey, it's interesting)
I must admit that for me, finding the good in all of the bad was much like finding a democrat in alabama: not easy. However, with a little effort I found it possible. Now I can only hope that in the coming chapters, my challenge will not be so daunting.
Monday, January 21, 2008
Welcome to Mahoney's Spring 2008 ENG 230
Hey all,
Well, another academic year is upon us and here we go with ENG 230 Advanced Composition--Mahoney style.
The title of this course, "Public Pedagogy: Managed Discourse and Available Means," signifies that this course has a rhetorical bent and is interested in how discourse is "managed," controlled, and manipulated in our current world. The rhetorical approach of this class means that we will be looking at the social and political contexts of discourse and will inquire into how we can intervene in this context.
This blog will be part of the little experiment we have going. As you can see, you have entered a "conversation" that has continued over the course of several semesters. We will be talking about writing as an on-going conversation all throughout this class. In his book The Philosophy of Literary Form: Studies in Symbolic Action, Kenneth Burke, a literary and rhetorical scholar, gave us the following metaphor of a “parlor” to highlight the conversational nature of knowledge making and, I would argue, writing:
Imagine that you enter a parlor. You come late. When you arrive, others have long preceded you, and they are engaged in a heated discussion, a discussion too heated for them to pause and tell you exactly what it is about. In fact, the discussion had already begun long before any of them got there, so that no one present is qualified to retrace for you all the steps that had gone before. You listen for a while, until you decide that you have caught the tenor of the argument, then you put in your oar. Someone answers; you answer him [or her]; another comes to your defense; another aligns himself [or herself] against you, to either the embarrassment of gratification of your opponent, depending upon the quality of your ally’s assistance. However, the discussion is interminable. The hour grows late, you must depart. And you do depart, with the discussion still vigorously in progress (110-111, brackets mine).
So, let the conversation begin...I'm looking forward to our little late-night rhetorical salon...Welcome!!!
Tuesday, January 15, 2008
Hey all,
Well, another semester is upon us and here we go with ENG 230 Advanced Composition...Mahoney-style.
The title of this course, "Public Pedagogy: Managed Discourse and Available Means," signifies that this course has a rhetorical bent and is interested in how discourse is "managed," controlled, and manipulated in our current world. The rhetorical approach of this class means that we will be looking at the social and political contexts of discourse and will inquire into how we can intervene in this context.
This blog will be part of the little experiment we have going. As you can see, you have entered a "conversation" that has continued over the course of several semesters. We will be talking about writing as an on-going conversation all throughout this class. In his book The Philosophy of Literary Form: Studies in Symbolic Action, Kenneth Burke, a literary and rhetorical scholar, gave us the following metaphor of a “parlor” to highlight the conversational nature of knowledge making and, I would argue, writing:
Imagine that you enter a parlor. You come late. When you arrive, others have long preceded you, and they are engaged in a heated discussion, a discussion too heated for them to pause and tell you exactly what it is about. In fact, the discussion had already begun long before any of them got there, so that no one present is qualified to retrace for you all the steps that had gone before. You listen for a while, until you decide that you have caught the tenor of the argument, then you put in your oar. Someone answers; you answer him [or her]; another comes to your defense; another aligns himself [or herself] against you, to either the embarrassment of gratification of your opponent, depending upon the quality of your ally’s assistance. However, the discussion is interminable. The hour grows late, you must depart. And you do depart, with the discussion still vigorously in progress (110-111, brackets mine).
So, let the conversation begin...I'm looking forward to our little rhetorical salon...Welcome!!!
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